SOAPBOX: Hermaphrodites, 'cis', and 'abelist' terms with a side of Supernatural gripe.

[obliviousally_lj]

I was wondering why this entry on brps_adult had so many comments for a post that didn't have much substance.

[info]vodkashakes
2011-04-27 01:26 am (local) (link) Track This
"Hermaphrodite" is not only offensive, but a physical impossibility.

Would be appreciated if the proper and inoffensive term "intersex" was used, please and thank you.

(And apologies if "herm" means something totally different than what I'm assuming and I haven't been paying the Internet enough attention to know. *__*)

Okay. Um. I was unaware 'hermaphrodite' (definition: her·maph·ro·dite (hr-mfr-dt) n. 1. An animal or plant exhibiting hermaphroditism. 2. Something that is a combination of disparate or contradictory elements. ) was such a ~terrible~ term. While the basic term 'hermaphrodite' isn't used commonly anymore, it's still in the lexicona and people are still going to use it. The case in point with this is that I believe the poster on the original entry was referring to Tapestries (or another sex-based furry MU*), where the term 'intersex' is near non-existent.

Now, this could have been fine, if this chick didn't get up in arms about one little term on one webpage in all of the internet.

[info]ghrelin
2011-04-27 01:38 am (local) (link) Track This
Actually, as a scientist I know for a fact that a hermaphrodite is very much a physical possibility, as any 9th grade biology textbook could tell you (and also wiki here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite ). Not trying to be annoying, but since you brought it up.
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[info]vodkashakes
2011-04-27 01:41 am (local) (link) Track This
... In humans, or snails?

Because I'm discussing humans. Really, since I was kind of up-to-date on the term "intersex", context clues mean I'm very much aware that yes, snails can have both sexes. Humans can't. And we're discussing humans.

I had no idea that I needed to note "EXCEPT SNAILS. 'HERMAPHRODITE' IS A PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE TERM FOR SNAILS" every time I discussed this.

Thank you so very very much for derailing the conversation about a serious issue, however.
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[info]ghrelin
2011-04-27 01:48 am (local) (link) Track This
Beg your pardon? It's not just limited to snails. I'm not sure why you're getting worked up, as you said it is a physical impossibility, which is just a plain mistake.

Also I got the impression the user was a furry judging by their icon, so I didn't realize s/he was discussing humans only per se.
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[info]vodkashakes
2011-04-27 01:54 am (local) (link) Track This
We are discussing humans. Not snails or plants or what the fuck ever, so leave those out of the discussion, please and thank you.

And it stands to reason that someone using the term "hermaphrodite" doesn't realize or doesn't care that it's offensive, so informing them is typically helpful and OP is awesome enough to care.

Someone is....really snappy about this subject. Like, more than they probably need to be when they could have just waited for the op to respond and then respond accordingly to them.

[info]seiberwing
2011-04-27 01:39 am (local) (link) Track This
"Hermaphrodite" is not only offensive, but a physical impossibility.

Well, if you're playing a realistic human. If you're getting more creative than anything is possible...though some aspects are not recommended. Such as penises the size of football fields.
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[info]vodkashakes
2011-04-27 01:42 am (local) (link) Track This
Let's not miss the point.

The point is that "hermaphrodite" is offensive and dehumanizing, and thus instances of its use need to be called out as such.
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[info]seiberwing
2011-04-27 01:51 am (local) (link) Track This
I'll have to wait for the OP to weigh in, but it's not dehumanizing if the (non-realistic human or nonhuman) character actually is a hermaphrodite. Then we're just into science fiction and sexual fantasy.

If we're talking about a real person then yes, it's offensive.

This is a fair enough assumption. I wouldn't call someone I met a hermaphrodite if they informed me they were intersex. On a place that commonly uses the term for fetish purposes (which she points out a few times as one of the reasons it shouldn't be used), the person playing the herm character probably doesn't give two fucks about terminology.

BUT.

WAIT FOR IT.

WAIT.

FOR.

IT.

[info]vodkashakes
2011-04-27 02:00 am (local) (link) Track This
FFS.

Are you cis?

If the character is even remotely human-like it is offensive. It is dehumanizing, and it lowers this sentient being down to a sexual fetish.

If we're talking about a real person then yes, it's offensive.

It's an offensive word when discussing anybody remotely human, whether they are a ~real person~ or not. For instance, the word "tranny" being used to describe a man like me even ~*~in fiction~*~ is absolutely offensive.
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Re: TW for slurs
[info]seiberwing
2011-04-27 02:05 am (local) (link) Track This
Er, perhaps I stated that wrong. By 'real person' I mean person who could theoretically exist in the real world. Your average character from Glee being a 'real person', that thing from Splice not being a 'real person'. A literal, biological hermaphrodite would in this case not be a 'real person'.

It's all moot anyway, the OP clarified.
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Re: TW for slurs
[info]vodkashakes
2011-04-27 02:07 am (local) (link) Track This
It's hardly moot.

That thing from Splice looks humanoid. If someone called a Vulcan, or a Tolkein!Elf for instance a hermaphrodite, I'd be pissed off.

This term needs to be gone from use describing someone who, as I continue to say, remotely resembles a human, so that its use describing real humans begins to go the hell away as well.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES BEING CIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING IN THIS CONVERSATION? OH, I'M SORRY. BECAUSE I'M 'CIS', I MUST NOT UNDERSTAND THE PLIGHT OF ANYONE WHO ISN'T 'CIS', RIGHT?

Fuck you.

I'm so tired of this bullshit being thrown around because it's ridiculous. I saw someone state that the McDonald's indicent that happened was 'one more reason to hate all cis people'.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Am I the only one who finds something wrong with this sort of attitude/mindset/behavior?

---

Oh, I'm not done because now I went too their userpage and lkghlfkghdflkghdlfkghdlkfgds.

Very simply, if you like the tv show Supernatural after seasons 1 and 2, I won't talk to you. I refuse to tolerate this show in large part due to its portrayal of complex PTSD, and Stockholm Syndrome (without actually naming it as Stockholm Syndrome or trauma, jfc), and I refuse to tolerate a fandom who not only accepts these portrayals as accurate, but engages in rampant victim blaming on a constant basis.

I fell in love with a show about two brothers who fell in love with each other love each other more than anything else in the world.

I don't know what the show is post S1/S2, but the amount of character assassination, OOC, and major mishandling of psychiatric issues is fairly disgusting and greatly offensive.

And Misha Collins was an absolute cockwad to the people of Scarborough, Canada, so if you have any tolerance for him, get out of my proverbial sight.

As far as Wincest goes: Dean tops Sam. No compromise. These characters have been ruined enough in canon without fanon destroying them further.

Wow.

Wow.

No, really. Wow.

I won't get into my rants about Wincest, but if you support the Winchester brothers boning, I don't find anything you say to have any validity. Okay, maybe not really, I bitch about the subject itself, but I really don't care about people that are into it, as long as they're not being butts about it.

I just....wow. I really don't have any words for how baffled I am by these words I'm reading on my screen. I'm going to be scratching my head over this for days.

I know I bitch about S6 and all, but I'm also allowed to bitch about others' opinions, so there.

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To end with: am I the only person tired of the word 'abelist'? Really, I'm tired of A LOT of words and the fact that I have to be prepared for the potential that someone will pitch a motherfucking fit if I'm not saying PC-friendly terms.

I use 'fag', 'gay', 'retard', ectera, ectera on a pretty regular basis and if someone I've never met and will probably never think of again wants to sit behind their computer screen and judge me with a rageface, they can feel free to. Because I'll be over here doing the haters gonna hate walk and not letting your little coniption fit phase me one bit.

Comments

[suzanami.livejournal.com]

"herm" is a specific thing in this case though, a fetish. is this the furry fandom? that's totally normal there and all the people with VERY CONFUSED SEXUAL IDENTITIES have no problem with it. i'd wager the majority of the furry fandom is not happily cis on one side of the kinsey scale, yknow? and i mean, especially if it's big tits and a dick, that's definitely what i'd refer to as a "herm(aphrodite)" and not "an intersexed person". i know it's equivalent to calling a black person "colored" or an asian "oriental" -- outdated and just not cool, but we're not talking about an intersexed person. we're talking about a character.

i have been irked about ~ableist~ language for a LONG TIME. though i agree with not throwing around "gay" and "retard" and whatnot, i will use "stupid", "lame", "idiot", etc to my heart's content. the ones i mentioned first ARE sensitive buttons right now. but the others have been in the lexicon with those meanings for DECADES. their usage is already set and their original meanings irrelevant. the word has already changed.
now "that's gay" and "you're so retarded" i can get behind because a lot of people who use those don't care about the people who are being referenced in the original meaning of the words.
i'm following some body-positive tumblrs and a really proactive christian gal, but i'm sick of their constant, "blah blah this is so ableist" when they reblog something that says, "this is stupid".
no, i don't think that is a battle worth fighting. yes, the little things do matter because they create a mindset that lets bigger things happen, but "stupid" is not one of those things.
/rage

in any case, she seems like one of those girls with a justice-filled sandy vagina.

[obliviousally.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, like I said, I would OBVIOUSLY not call an intersexed person a hermaphrodite. It's a character, not a real person and to throw SUCH a fit over it is kind of annoying to others.

In the same vein, I would obviously not call someone with disabilities retarded or anything, but I'll use it around my friends or in reference to something I find dumb. I think a lot of the issues with these ~ableist~ terms is that most of them HAVE lost their meanings for a long time now. When they're used in casual conversation, the people using them mean no ill will and to have others come down on them and make them feel guilty for something they're not actually guilty for is pretty upsetting. It's like, I didn't connect 'gypped' to 'gypsies' until the last couple years because...that's not in the definition of the term to me.

It's just a battle that's not going to go anywhere on the internet unless they're bullying teenage girls on tumblr who don't want/know how to speak up for themselves because someone likely 'older' is lecturing them. I see that a lot, unfortunately.

[hellebore.livejournal.com]

HAHA SPECIAL TERMS? ABLEIST? CIS?

HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA god people will find ANYTHING to bitch about and make them seem unique online.

[obliviousally.livejournal.com]

This is SO rampant on places like tumblr and some spots on LJ. It's really ridiculous. I've never seen so many people trying to shove 'politically correct' terms down others' throats before.

[armaina.livejournal.com]

I can understand the point about referring to human being as intersexed instead of hermaphrodite, but I don't get the whole... condemning a person because they think it would be interesting to have a character that was a hermaphrodite. I mean, that's kind of the reason to make different characters I would think, to play out certain concepts that you cannot be yourself.

I'm also sick of anything that uses what a person is as an insult. "you don't get it because you're male/female/gender neutral/cis/trans/hetero/bi/gay/neurotypical/autistic/christan/jewish/pagan/atheist/etc"

No one likes it when assumptions are made about themselves based on a stereotype of what they are. It's insulting not just to them, but only leads to the greater problem of enforcing more stereotypes and 'roles' for everything. Sure, different groups tend to have different experiences, but that doesn't invalidate things. If you really want to promote better understanding, stop alienating other groups as though it would never be possible.

(obviously I don't mean you, you, just rambling in general)

[obliviousally.livejournal.com]

NO, I DON'T GET IT BECAUSE I DON'T GET YOU'RE INSANE RANTING, is pretty much what it boils down to. People need to stop telling others they don't 'get' something because they're not 'blah', it's insulting. ESPECIALLY when it comes to gender. I may not physically be anything other than a white, pansexual female, but my fiance is a mixed, pansexual FtM, so I think I have a window in on the 'other world' there.

The people that pull this kind of bullshit are always the ones who are trying to fight against it. It's extremely hypocritical and this is coming from someone who's often hypocritical herself, though not (generally) on such a large or aggravating scale.

[suzanami.livejournal.com]

you used the wrong "your" above so your entire statement is negated because that means you are obviously gay retarded stupid i give up.

[obliviousally.livejournal.com]

fgkjdlgkjfklg

MY LIFE IS OVER

THAT'S WHAT I GET FOR TYPING THINGS RIGHT AFTER I WAKE UP.